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      CommentAuthorMathdude314 (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2015
     
    Starting on Friday (I think) I'll have a lot more free time and I'd love to start a werewolf game again. What do you think? Who should be the GM (Game Master)?

    For the new members: Over the course of this forum there have been lots of forum games and Werewolf-like ones have been common. Here's the links to some of the past games (I'm only linking to ones with at least two full games):

    Note: All of these are old games, so you can read them but DO NOT comment
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (1, Unihedron)
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (2, Xyuzhg)
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (3, Unihedron)
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (4, puzzle geek)
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (7, me)
    http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm... (8, puzzle geek)


    Also, we have to decide:
    (1) Resume puzzle geek's WW8 which was interrupted due to lack of players
    (2) Start WW9. Who would then be the GM?
    2a. Me
    2b. Vanderwaal
    2c. puzzle geek
    2d. Other (please specify)
    NOTE: If you want to be GM, know that I recommend you get on at least 5 times per day and don't make more than two spelling errors per comment. It's also harder than you think, since you have to maintain EVERYTHING.


    I think we should start a game. The GM should be one of:
    puzzle geek for WW8
    Vanderwaal because he's only been GM once and his game fizzled out after only one game
    Mathdude314 because I screwed up WW7 and I have some perfect ideas for rules, AND the fact that I was only GM once (though I got two games)-----------------
    If less people are active, that will only make for even less activity. Start making those designs!
    Currently working on a one-round no-elimination quick RP game...
  1.  
    While this post may sound like it is for a rather wide range of audience, it is especially directed towards Mathdude314, and anyone else who are interested in reviving the series of Werewolf.

    Hi! I don't have experience with this game at all and have only learned how it works through reading the previous versions and asking in chat, but to be honest I'm not interested in participating in any, anyway. (I'm too stupid to go through these games without ruining the experience for myself.) Allow me to voice my opinions specific to the questions you asked though:

    To begin with, I'm against continuing puzzle geek's game. At its pace and lack of effort in maintaining a tabletop RPG storytelling hype, it's difficult to have another lasting game out of it. To quote a short conversation with Xyuzhg in the chat room: Xyuzhg - "Honestly, I feel that only Unihedron and I added real gameplay to the series. The recent ones are rather superficial." Me - "They had too much filler 'items' and the GM story walkthrough were unappealing.", "Unihedron's series were splendid though. However, it doesn't read original, probably had the story stolen from somewhere." I believe that it takes a storyline with more continuity for a forum game to work in this format with so few players, and the old one just would not manage it.

    Here's the relevant chat log, for those who are interested:


    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Actually, where\'s episode 5 and 6 of the werewolf series?
    ‹Xyuzhg› They failed to actually start.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› I can\'t find them with the search feature.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Oh.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Why didn\'t you guys just forget as if it was proposed and start back at 5 then? xD
    ‹Xyuzhg› I found the threads:
    ‹Xyuzhg› http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm...
    ‹Xyuzhg› http://forum.colorinfection.com/comm...
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Thanks!
    ‹Xyuzhg› Honestly, I feel that only Unihedron and I added real gameplay to the series. The recent ones are rather superficial.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› They had too much filler "items" and the GM story walkthrough were unappealing.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Unihedron\'s series were splendid though. However, it doesn\'t read original, probably had the story stolen from somewhere.
    ‹Xyuzhg› I felt that too, so I added my own touch in version 2. I\'m glad it got Unihedron inspired enough to add more content in the same vein though.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› I kinda wish they start another series. Not to participate in one I like, but to read another narration for the tabletop game.
    ‹Is It Not Surpr› Frankly, I don\'t really care about joining in any of the ongoing forum games, they don\'t interest me. :P


    As for the candidates for being a GM, I do not believe having any new ideas in particular or even the lack of chance to be one should make one a higher priority, instead the motivation to lead by example with good judgement through the gameplay elements and maintaining continuity through-out each round of their game. This makes me feel Unihedron, who recently returned to the forum (I know he did, I was here.), is a role model that any ideal candidates should follow. Comparing the three candidates you listed, I find that Vanderwaal was the most serious with their game, but lacks experience. I'm indifferent with who starts the next game, but as long as they follow the traits I list here, I'm willing to bet it will actually thrive for once.

    Too long; Didn\'t read summary for TL;DR'ers:

    1 - No.
    2 - No.

    To get anything more than that, you'd have to read the entire thing.-----------------
    Please Understand
    • CommentAuthorXyuzhg (Moderator)
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2015
     
    In light of Is It Not Surprising's post, which I completely agree with, here is a completely different angle that I suggest. Since I'm going to have plenty of free time for the next while, I'd like to nominate myself as GM for a new game described below.

    The Voting Game

    This game works on a round-based system, with no teams. In each round, you have 1000 votes, and all of them must be used (or otherwise randomly allocated). At the end of each round, the player with the fewest votes gets lynched off; you cannot vote for yourself (normally). Players begin with 1000 vote points (VP), and after each game they gain some depending on the number of rounds they survive.

    The twist: Players may form contracts/trades with each other (verified by the GM). They may include their ownership of effectively anything in the game - from VPs to voting rights, survival status, or even game victories. As long as both parties agree to the terms of the contract, and there is a sufficient way for the GM to ensure the fidelity of the agreement, any transactions between any players are allowed. For example:

    - Player X may propose to Player Y (through the GM) that they wish to trade 300 of X's votes each round (voting rights) in exchange for Player Y to share half his final VP winnings with X.
    - If Player A is dead, Player B can propose giving his alive status to A in exchange for the right to claim victory in the next three games.

    To make things more fun, the GM itself is a little like a bank. You can take loans from the GM (if that's more favorable than loans from each other). If you have enough VP then you can even temporarily borrow the rights to specific rules of the game, allowing for some potentially crazy strategies.

    How does this sound?-----------------
    Hopefully PA is inconsistent.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVanderwaal
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2015
     
    Hey, does anyone want to make a contract with me?

    I'll give you the right to claim victory in the 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, etc. games while you allow me to claim victory in the 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, etc. games.

    Seems like it's pretty easy to break the game. Also, I suspect your game's a bit complicated. Maybe it's better to scrap a few of the rules to make it easier. If the game's successful you can always add more rules in later games.


    To get to Math's suggestion, I would like a new game of WW and I'm also willing to be the GM. And Surprise, I GM-ed a few games on another forum, so I have more experience than just that failed game.
    • CommentAuthorpuzzle geek (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2015
     
    Actually, i liked Madballs idea of having various emotions/morals/iforgetwhathecalledit.
    WW would have a more negitive aura, ect, and add traits like depressed, or happy. If a WW dies, villager get happier, WW gets saddder, ect. He explained it in the WW8 thread.

    As for WW8, i did, and still do, have an elaborate plan for that, but before we con tinue that, or ww9, i say we should finish color courts case one. the issue with these role playerrs is that it starts off great, but then we all lose interest mostly. Lets finish color courts case 1 first.

    As for WW9 GM, i like madballs idea, but sicne he clearly isn't very active, someone else would have to run it. I honestly would not vote for myself or mathdude. Vanderwaal, uni, or xyuzhg would be good choices (although if we choose to finish WW8 off, i would like to run that to its end.)-----------------
    puzzled
    • CommentAuthorXyuzhg (Moderator)
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2015 edited
     
    Vanderwaal, I'm not sure how your example 'breaks' the game. A right to claim victory can only be exercised if you have met the winning conditions, so if you don't actually win the game, you won't be giving anything. If anyone thinks that they're more likely to win than you are, there's no point to agree to the contract.

    If you try to trade "the victory of the current game", well, you don't have ownership over it, so that's an illegal trade. You could, however, trade it potentially with the GM with a vast amount of VP.

    I feel that Is It Not Surprising's point hasn't been understood well.
    Adding new content to the WW games will not make them any better at this point.
    I would definitely not like to GM any WW game, considering that at the moment it's just become a concentrate of filler skills and items.-----------------
    Hopefully PA is inconsistent.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVanderwaal
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2015 edited
     
    Xyuzhg, in that case I don't understand this example:
    - If Player A is dead, Player B can propose giving his alive status to A in exchange for the right to claim victory in the next three games.

    How is this trade possible when A hasn't won the next three games just yet?

    Also for the people who want to read Madball's suggestion Puzzle was talking about:
    Every person in the game has morale value. Morale is controlled by GM and reacts to events.
    Also, day and night phases might be combined. In my version abilities are slower.
    Each morning people look at each other\\'s faces and know everybody\\'s morale. They don\\'t get midday updates, so nobody knows how exactly does the morale change.

    The traitor doesn\\'t kill directly, but makes people suicide. It requires the target to have low morale. If the traitor doesn\\'t succeed, target\\'s morale drop, so he will eventually be able to do it. Or maybe that\\'s not needed, but I like this idea.
    The detective doesn\\'t find out roles directly. He can threaten a person, and if the target is a traitor, his morale will drop, and you might notice it in the morning.

    Morale has other reasons to change. For example, if you kill an evil guy, all good guys get morale boost. So, if everybody but one person gets happier, he might be another traitor.
    People also have traits of character, which are abilities affecting morale. So, there might be a cheerful guy, who can boost target\\'s morale, or a depressive guy, who gets spontaneous morale drops now and then, or a sensitive guy, who gets sad after every kill, even if a traitor died.

    Basically, I tried to emulate a psychological aspect that you can use when playing in real life.
  2.  
    I think an interesting concept with Xyuzhg's new game is that the GM is involved in the game, unlike the Werewolf series where the GM manages without the ability to interfere countering user actions (which is evident by how whispers are revealed afterwards).-----------------
    Please Understand
    • CommentAuthorXyuzhg (Moderator)
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2015
     
    Vanderwaal, there's a fundamental difference between the right to do something vs. the action of doing something.

    As an analogy, suppose there's a lottery that you've drawn a ticket for, and your friend wants to participate in the lottery but can't find any tickets. You're waiting for the results, so you haven't actually won anything, but you own the right to claim the lottery winnings should you win the lottery. So, imagine the following two scenarios:

    1. You offer the lottery prize to your friend. This is not valid as you don't actually have the lottery prizes.
    2. You offer the lottery ticket to your friend. This is completely valid as you have ownership over the ticket.

    Obviously, the lottery represents the game. The first scenario is what you seem to think I'm referring to, which is definitely wrong as the ownership of the prize is not yours unless your lottery ticket wins. The second scenario is what I actually wrote, where you're giving away the right to win instead.-----------------
    Hopefully PA is inconsistent.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMathdude314 (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2015
     
    Wow.-----------------
    If less people are active, that will only make for even less activity. Start making those designs!
    Currently working on a one-round no-elimination quick RP game...
    •  
      CommentAuthorMathdude314 (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2015 edited
     
    I like the morale thing, but this was my other idea if I was the GM: the weekly newspaper.

    The game always starts on the day the newspaper is received, with "Day 0" being fast-forwarded (e.g. "Day 0 start! [reveals newspaper] There is nothing to do, so Day 0 End! Night 1 Start!"

    The newspaper is divided into sections: the front page (Which is always about the werewolf invasion, but might have extra info, e.g. "Werewolves have been known to usually be terrible at chess"). Then, other town news (e.g. "BioManiac R2 won 5th place in a chess tournament" to indicate BioManiac R2 is probably innocent). Finally, the "Extra" section. This includes a cryptogram (when decrypted might or might not reveal info about the game), the "town gossip" (four statements, at least one true and at least one false), and a joke I throw in for entertainment only.

    The front page or the "other news" section would also give hints on exploration (e.g. "a rare gem was found to the east, but there's also some lions there if you get unlucky!")

    Here's a sample:



    Werewolves have taken over! The horrible creatures have entered our once peaceful village. Luckily, it is day, so we have time to prepare ourselves.
    Werewolves have been known to be lazy and not be too active in the village [note 1], perhaps to hide their identity?

    Valuables discovered to the north!
    Be careful though... traps lurk there and if you\\'re not constantly alert [note 2], you should stay away!



    CLUE FOUND: Someone claimed to have seen Vanderwaal starting to transform into a werewolf last night. However, it was not known who made the claim, for it was written with stamps.

    Statistics: When werewolves invaded past villages and took over, it was noted also that 75% of the time, the werewolf was actually really good at spelling. [note 3]

    Suspicious Activity: Though it\\'s not 100% certain, we saw puzzle geek entering someone\\'s house without permission last night. We\\'re not sure why. [note 4]



    Cryptogram: (I\\\'m not going to invent one just for the example, but it would be about 75 letters long and most likely be a substitution cipher, e.g. COLOR INFECTION might be ABCBD EFGHAIEBF)

    Gossip:
    Hey, jodi850 doesn\\'t seem like a regular villager. He\\'s someone special...
    jodi850 got second place spelling bee two years ago. [note 5]
    There are two werewolves in your village, not one! [note 6]
    There are two evil team members: a werewolf and a traitor. [note 6]

    Joke: (this section is useless and is only there for space-filling and entertainment)




    Notes (you may have figured them out yourself):
    (1) This means the werewolf is more likely one of the less active players who don't get on very much. This is not certain, though.
    (2) This means if you can't get on frequently to check updates, you shouldn't go there.
    (3) This does NOT mean the user makes few spelling errors on the forum! As this is just an example, I would either make it more clear or use a different clue.
    (4) It could be puzzle geek is a spy or bodyguard, or maybe he's out for a kill!
    (5) He got second place, but maybe someone else got first place. Or our werewolf isn\'t good at spelling. You never know.
    (6) These contradict! Unfortunately, it doesn't help you.

    EDIT: The newspaper is only issued on the first "day", unless the game reaches Day 7. Also, I forgot to mention that in my version, the werewolves get their roles on Night 0 and kill a villager named "John Doe". He's useless to the game and only for the plot.-----------------
    If less people are active, that will only make for even less activity. Start making those designs!
    Currently working on a one-round no-elimination quick RP game...
    • CommentAuthorpuzzle geek (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2015
     
    Uhhhhh
    No comment on mathdudes newspaper... XD

    Xyuzhg, i completely disagree on the "filler" items and abilities ect.
    Some items and abilities are rearanged into differant forms but keep the same usage.
    Some items/abilities were there for the plot in my game (the one that no one ever took the time to think about).
    Some were there for humor, because a game without humor is boring.
    And there were some that were differant from others that appeared in previous games that i felt were good additions.
    I feel that most of the items that were new were actually good additions.
    We should stray from the classics and be original.

    I like the idea of the GM getting involved, which is what i tried to do in WW8, but i dont like the idea of a bank per se.-----------------
    puzzled
    •  
      CommentAuthorVanderwaal
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2015
     
    Xyuzhg, shall we just try your game once? That way we'll get a bit more life on this forum.
    • CommentAuthorpuzzle geek (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeMay 26th 2015
     
    I actually would really like to finish WW8 personally...
    I had a lot of material planned...-----------------
    puzzled
    •  
      CommentAuthorMathdude314 (Advanced Member)
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2015
     
    Let's all vote using modified approval voting.

    Please fill out this form:

    WW9, Mathdude314 version: (-1 to +1)
    WW9, Vanderwaal version: (-1 to +1)
    Morale: (-1 to +1)
    Xyuzhg\'s voting game: (-1 to +1)
    WW8: (-1 to +1)
    Other (specify): (-1 to +1)

    Note that some of these can stack, e.g. if 2 and 3 get high votes then Vanderwaal would incorporate morale into his game.

    Mine:
    WW9, Mathdude314 version: +1
    WW9, Vanderwaal version: +1
    Morale: +0.75
    Xyuzhg\'s voting game: +0.1
    WW8: +0.5-----------------
    If less people are active, that will only make for even less activity. Start making those designs!
    Currently working on a one-round no-elimination quick RP game...